{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://saaacam.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/c24qj79h94/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Pastor Michael Brown Interview"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/571/original/full-color_2x.png?1735841768","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["The African American Network TV (TAAN TV)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003ePastor Michael Brown of True Vision Church describes his upbringing and his road to ministry. He discusses how the church as an institution can be applied outside of the building and how pastors can do more to relate real world experiences and practical issues to scripture and sermons. \u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eAll materials are for noncommercial educational or research uses only. 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Today I have the great pleasure of being able to talk to Pastor Michael Steve Brown. He is the pastor of True Vision. And we are just so excited to have him because he's had a- a journey, and I want to start with your journey, pastor. Tell us about your family and where you grew up in this- in this- in this city.\r\n\r\n\r\nMichael Brown  0:31  \r\nThank you, Chris. I'm- I’m happy to be here and glad to be a part of this 300 Voices, well maybe one voice among many. You know, my family, my- let me start with my father. I come from a family of preachers, a family of pastors. My father pastors here in San Antonio, Texas. Well, he's like a Michael Jordan, if you will. He pastored for a number of years, he retired, and he came back and pastored for another three or four years after that. He's retired now, doing well. He's a member of our- True Vision Church now, which is an honor for us to have him. So obviously, with him pastoring that many years–I'm forty-eight years old, and he's been pastoring about that many years, so I've always known him as father and–\r\n\r\n\r\n[Both speakers]  1:22\r\n–pastor. \r\n\r\n\r\nMichael Brown  1:23\r\nSo we just grew up in a Christian home, we grew up with Christian values, morals, and that kind of thing. Our character was shaped, our manners were shaped, you know, by scripture, by text. It was a little strict in the early years. My dad kind of softened up later on, but strict to the point where didn't have Monopoly because Monopoly had dice–\r\n\r\n\r\nChristopher Herring  1:45\r\nAnd that's gambling. \r\n\r\n\r\nMichael Brown  1:46\r\nDidn't play card games ‘cause anything like that was associated–as it relates to my father, or at least, a- as he thought–gambling. But, you know, grew up, I was in church. I was a church baby, you know, if you will. They would say “born on a- on a church pew.” I've worked in the church all my life. I've done it all, I've sung in the choir, I've ushered, I was a, what they call, a junior deacon in our Baptist church growing up. I, uh- it was a small church a- at times, and we needed people to do certain things, you just grabbed people. I- I counted money. I did it all. I did it all in that church. Became a deacon myself, full- full-fledged deacon. Became a preacher in that church, and–. So I was raised that way, my family was raised that way. I have a brother here that pastors in the city of Schertz–you know, right outside of San Antonio, Schertz, Texas– and he's been there for twenty-seven years. He's five years my senior. And again, same thing: we did it all in church. He was a organist, I was a drummer. We did it all, he grew up, and then here he is, he's pastoring now. And I’m- matter of fact, Chris, as we cele- we talk about these 300 Voices in 300 Days, I'm celebrating twenty years at True Vision Church. Matter of fact, just had a banquet last week. It's wonderful.\r\n\r\n\r\nChristopher Herring  3:04\r\nWell, congratulations.\r\n\r\n\r\nMichael Brown  3:04\r\nIt’s beautiful. Thank you, sir. \r\n\r\n\r\nChristopher Herring  3:06\r\nTwenty years of being committed in anything is great. But to be a pastor and- and seeing it through for twenty years, that's really commendable. \r\n\r\n\r\nMichael Brown  3:17\r\nI love it. \r\n\r\n\r\nChristopher Herring  3:18\r\nWow. And- and so again, now let's talk about your mom, because you just talked about your dad. So let's talk about your mom. How was h- How was she influential in your life?\r\n\r\n\r\nMichael Brown  3:29  \r\nMan, I would say- I'm a mama's boy, let me- let me let me start with that. I know there are different descriptions and definitions of that. I'm a mama's boy in the sense that she's my girl and- and I love her. My mom, let me tell you something, she was not licensed or ordained as a preacher, but I think she did more preaching in the house than my father did. I mean, you know, my mom and dad are both country people they come- we come from Louisiana. I was born here in San Antonio, but they come from Louisiana. They have all of these country sayings, and she would say them to us and they have stuck with me, many of them, and- and I still live by them today. She would preach to us ‘cause oftentimes my dad–though I- I cited him as a preacher and a pastor, he had a military career, served in two wars: Vietnam and Korea. He taught at St. Philip's College, he worked civil service, so he was out of the house a lot. So we spent a lot of time with mom. So mom did the real, practical at-home raising and training. Dad just was the enforcer when he came home. But she, man, has taught us- she dressed us. We- we were always amongst the best looking kids at school, we were always amongst the best acting kids in the community. She- she- now don't get me wrong, she didn't always wait for Dad to come home. She knew how to discipline us herself. She kept us straight. And I love my mom dearly. Yeah.\r\n\r\n\r\nChristopher Herring  4:56  \r\nTell us about the schools that you went to in San Antonio.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nMichael Brown  4:59  \r\nOh, Bella Cameron Elementary School, I went to Riley Middle School, which is now- when I was there it became King Middle School, there on -on Martin Luther King Drive. I was headed to Sam Houston High School, my family ended up moving in my eighth grade year. And so I ended up going to East Central High School. Now that was a challenge for me because I'd grown up in schools that were predominantly African American and Black, going to East Central, predominant- predominantly white. But I appreciated being there. I appreciated the diversity there, if you will, and learning how to live and adapt, that kind of thing. Went off to college. Well, first of all, I went to college here in San Antonio: SAC, San Antonio College. I was headed for a journalism degree. Preaching was not on my mind, pastoring was not on my mind. That's when you hear this thing in- in the Baptist church–and other houses of faith–called “the- the calling.” The calling is something–\r\n\r\n\r\nChristopher Herring  5:59  \r\nWhen did you hear the calling?\r\n\r\n\r\nMichael Brown  5:59  \r\n–you’re called to. Oh, I was twenty years old. I'm gonna be honest with you, heard it before then, but I think I gave serious attention to it at that time. I w- I was what they call “running from it.” Something I didn't want to do, something I saw my father do, I saw my uncle do, I saw my dad do, I didn't want to do it. I didn't like it. I didn't like what you had to go through sometimes and- and dealing with that. So I was headed- headed in a different direction. But if you read- there's a passage in the Bible, book called Jonah, this fella Jonah, who was called to go do something for God, went in a different direction, but at the end of the story, end of the day, he ended up doing what God called him to do. That's where I am, I'm doing what I'm called to do. And I'll say this, Chris, I'm not even sure if I s- want to do it now. It’s that dichotomy. The Spirit side of me is gung ho about what I do. The flesh side of me sometimes like, “I wish I could do something else.” But this is where I am. This is where I fit, though. I know this is my purpose in life. I don't have peace doing anything else other than what I do, as it relates to preaching and pastoring and teaching and, you know, casting vision for the church.\r\n\r\n\r\nChristopher Herring  7:03  \r\nAnd what is your greatest responsibility as a pastor?\r\n\r\n\r\nMichael Brown  7:07  \r\nYou know, living a life before the people. Living a life before the people.\r\n\r\n\r\nChristopher Herring  7:13\r\nThat's pretty hard. \r\n\r\n\r\nMichael Brown  7:14\r\nOh, man, it- it is. It's- it's unfair. Here it is: to preach a perfect word, if you will–the Bible–to preach this book and you're not perfect yourself. And people will judge you by what you say, in that- someone has likened it unto a mailman. The mailman doesn't create your bill, he just delivers your bill. Don't get mad at the mailman ‘cause of the bill he delivers ‘cause guess what, the mailman, when he goes home, he has a mailman and he might have bills in his mailbox as well. So I'm imperfect, I preach a perfect gospel. So it's God's word, not mine. I try, then, to not be opinionated. I tried, then, not to overshadow it with dogma, my, you know, how I feel about it. Try to be straight and clear about what God says. And as I am challenging people to live a life, I'm challenging myself. What people don't know- know sometimes, as I prepare a sermon, there are many sermons that never get to the people. Sometimes Chris, Christopher, I discover that word was God speaking to me about me. Sometimes it gets to the people, but it still cuts me sometimes and challenges me in certain areas. As I- as I speak to husbands, sometimes I have to look at, “Okay, as you- you getting ready to preach this sermon Sunday about being a good husband. Hey, some of these things on this list [sucks his teeth] you're not making an A on.” But it does challenge me to do better. You got- you about to preach a sermon about being a father, or a parent, “Hey–,” you know, so.\r\n\r\n\r\nChristopher Herring  8:42  \r\nSo in the church, you know, we oftentimes see that our women are there in full force, and maybe the men are not. So what is your message to men about why they need to be in the house of God to receive the message of God?\r\n\r\n\r\nMichael Brown  9:00\r\nWow. Now, saying what I'm getting ready to say, to some without a biblical foundation and background, it will seem chauvinistic. But I'm old school, but I'm biblical, and I think that husband, that father is supposed to be the leader in that home, supposed to lead out. And so- lead out in every area, and particularly, especially in the area of spirituality, in church. There's some stats that if you get the wife in church or the woman church, you may get the children. If you get the husband, father in the church, you get the whole family. And that speaks to leadership right there. If you get that husband and father, everyone falls in line. And I'm telling you, families are not- let me say this, the church is made up of families. Without families, there is no church. But the church, I think, speaks to, again, morals, it speaks to character, virtue- virtues and all of that, things we should have in society. It- it speaks to that it helps us create better communities, better cities, countries, whatever the case may be. So I tell the man, “Listen, you got to lead out. You've got to be the one waking up on Sunday morning, or before you go to bed on Satu- Saturday night, “All right y'all, you know what we're doing tomorrow, let's get it together, let’s- let's get our clothes ready, let's get ready to go and meet with the other people in the community in church. Let’s hear a good word, let's- let's go worship our God.’”\r\n\r\n\r\nChristopher Herring  10:25  \r\nSo Pastor Brown, when you're- you're also addressing fellow clergy– you know, I- I sometimes think about the influence that Dr. King had, not only on San Antonio, but the world, and when he was writing his Letter from the Birmingham Jail, you know, basically to white clergy about the state and condition of- of Black America. I ask you, when you think about your fellow clergy and the challenges that our community has, what would be your letter to them, that you would say to them, that would help them to understand where we are and where we need to go?\r\n\r\n\r\nMichael Brown  11:03  \r\nMan, I- I have a perspective on that. I have led clergy. We have a group called the Baptist Ministers Union in San Antonio, I've been president of that. Not now, not currently, but I have led that group for five years–it would have been six, but I- we were doing some other things, I let it go. What would I challenge us to do? Make sure your voice is loud enough that it’s heard beyond the walls of what we call that church building. I don't see myself just as True Vision’s pastor, I see myself as a community person. When I drive down the street- I saw a young man, a young- young boy, couple of weeks ago, obviously with some issues at school, and they were looking for him, and I saw some people handling him. I pulled over my car to make sure he was safe, to see if I could lend my voice or some influence to that situation. He was a boy, obviously, that was very troubled, and cops had pulled up. And in the climate we live in today–Black young man, white cops–I wanted to make sure I was there. For me, that's what we ought to be doing. I'm not a political person, necessarily. But I think I need to speak God's truth to political powers. I think I can't afford to just preach sermons that are just about Moses crossing folk over the Red Sea without a practical- practical application of what that means today, November– I know I’m dating this- this broadcast–2017. I can't just preach about David and Goliath unless I'm really dealing with some practical principles of how we should deal with our Goliath today. So therefore, that causes me, if you will, to steer into the lane of some political hot-button issues like the flag and do we stand or do we kneel. Or even like sexual harassment, that's really big, that abuse, and- and that's going on on the scene right now. Or domestic issues, whatever it may be. We've got to speak to those issues from a- from a- and the Bible covers them, the Bible covers them, they are there.\r\n\r\n\r\nChristopher Herring  13:19  \r\nAnd ev- even within our own community, I asked you to come to Austin to talk at the Texas Association of African American Chambers, our business conference. \r\n\r\n\r\nMichael Brown  11:31\r\nYeah. Thank you so much, I was honored to do so. \r\n\r\n\r\nChristopher Herring  11:32\r\nAnd- and just talking about, you know, why is it important for our community to embrace entrepreneurship, and what- you know, and- and small business creation. I think that was so important that we heard from a church pastor. And so with that, let's just talk about, you know, what do you think that the church can do more to have these practical applications, as you put it, to help our communities where we see that the community may be weak?\r\n\r\n\r\nMichael Brown  14:04  \r\nThe church has been, and is, continues to be, for us, as African Americans, the foremost gathering of African Americans, consistently. When you think about the weekend and how many Black people are in church, whether they go on Saturdays, whether they go on Sundays, or whether they go during the week–to a mission meeting, to a prayer meeting, to a Bible study–it’s the foremost gathering. We need to really understand that better. Politicians understand that. When they're running for office, oh they will particip- [imitating a politician] “Pastor, can I come to your church? And can I speak and have words and let the people know I'm running?” They know if you want to reach the African American community, you go through the church. Got me? We have to understand that power, we have to understand that influence, we have to understand that gathering, and we've got to, I think, make it more meaningful, make it more purposeful. I think we've got to- we've- we've had clergy come in and share–we've had issues with clergy–we've prayed for them. I wanted to be an example of, “Okay, we can protest, let's- okay protest, there’s nothing wrong with that, but let's make sure we do what God told us to do first. Let's pray. And let's try to find solutions.” I'm a part of and kind of a visionary for–we've done it twice now, second year– Cops and Clergy basketball game. It's not about basketball, but it was about bringing Black clergy, or even Hispanic clergy, together with cops, trying to unify– we call it Unity in the Community–trying to unify, trying to get to know, trying to humanize. We can see each other for our positions and miss that we're humans and we have so much in common. Hey, y- ou- my taxes are bad, your taxes are bad, if you will. If it's storming in San Antonio at my house, it might be storming in San Antonio at your house. To see what we have in common, to bridge gaps, to build relationships. So to take advantage of these things, teach our young boys again. I don't- Chris, I guess you grew up the same way I did, and we're seeing it again with the Trayvon Martin, beyond, beyond, beyond. How do we act in certain places in the city? It shouldn't be that way, but the truth is, you got to know how to conduct yourself, you got to know how people may see you. So with these- these gatherings, take advantage of them and, again, get practical in our teaching, in our demonstration, showing- bring people in. Watch this. I got to be careful how I say this.\r\n\r\n\r\nChristopher Herring  16:39  \r\nYou're saying it good. You’re saying it good, so far. Just- because I know that there's always this- this stress that pastors do take because people will say pastors need to do more. And some pastors believe that, you know, protests, whether it's supporting a Black Lives Matter, is important or not. These are all reflections of what people believe. And- and so the pastor typically is the one individual who has to decipher between what man says, but then what does God say? So you're doing just great.\r\n\r\n\r\nMichael Brown  17:16  \r\nWe need to- we need to do more, but I think people forget what we're already doing. Churches provide a lot of free counseling, keeping families together, keeping people sane, even a sermon. Man, I think the sermon I did a couple weeks ago was one of the most therapeutic sermons–people have told me–dealing with emotions, dealing with grief, dealing with anger. You know what I mean? These people leave Sunday morning and go back to a job that they sometimes hate, or the people around there they don't really care for much, somebody they probably would have choked had they not heard that sermon. You know what I mean? Kept things peaceful in the workplace. I think it's- it's hidden, if you will. There's so many things that- our- our facility has been given over–the city of San Antonio has used our facility, the city of Kirby has used our facility, people have graduated at- either at low cost or no cost. And I mean, it's just so many things that the church does. We hire, I mean, just think about it. In the Black community, I've got, I'm gonna say, about 15 people, not all full-time. No, really more than that, almost- maybe twenty, on staff, not all full-time. So we employ African Americans. We use vendors, as best we can. When we do catered events, African American. Our plumber is not African American, but a Hispanic brother. Our- our AC guy, you know. And so all of that takes place. There's a great deal of contribution. We talked about, financially, what it means to have one church in the community, and based on either salaries, based on in-kind things that are done, what is really given back to the community, and it is enormous. And then you add that one church and multiply it times many other churches that are doing some of the similar things. We have- we have- we feed people, we help people maybe who've lost a job stay in their- their homes, trying to find another job. We've paid light bills. That happens, we don't talk about it, though. Matter of fact, God… [pauses] keeps us, he says, “Hey, hey, hey, don't- don't do it to be seen. Don't do it so someone can say how great you are. Just do it.” And so the church gets criticism because a lot of what it does is under the radar. But now, I still say we can do- we can do better, and we can do more. I think–someone told me this years ago and I believe it–the biggest room in the world is the room for improvement.\r\n\r\n\r\nChristopher Herring  19:41  \r\nSo powerful in terms of everything that you've said, that the church is doing so much under the radar. And as a pastor who has been doing this for twenty years, just like to thank you for your contributions, tremendous contributions. You said that you are a person who is in the community. I also want to applaud you for being on the board of directors of the Alamo City Black Chamber of Commerce. Again, it's- it's pastors playing in roles and positions that just don't always reflect the role that they have within the church. And for people to see you, in the community doing things that, you know, you can be a good role model, virtually anything that you put your mind to. So we want to thank you for that. \r\n\r\n\r\nMichael Brown  20:27  \r\nChris, I want to thank you and Laura, and whomever else had anything to do with me being one of the voices in the 300 Voices. So, it’s an honor.\r\n\r\n\r\nChristopher Herring  20:34  \r\nWell, Laura Thompson is doing a- a great thing with TAAN TV, the 300 Voices in 300 Days.\r\n\r\n\r\nMichael Brown  20:39\r\nTAAN TV is awesome. \r\n\r\n\r\nChristopher Herring  20:40\r\nAnd it's great just for me to be able to capture a small segment of your life journey. Is there anything that you want to tell us that we don't know about you before I close?\r\n\r\n\r\nMichael Brown  20:51  \r\nWow. Wow. What you don't know about me? I'm a quiet guy. I'm an introvert. I'm really shy, believe it or not. I turn on when I have to do what I have to do. Other than that, I'm a loner. I meditate, I pray a bit. I love music, I love movies, I love the Spurs–I'm not a sports guy, but I like the Spurs and I like Dallas Cowboys. There it is. Oh, and I'm a Prince fan. Don't- don't tell too many people that.\r\n\r\n\r\nChristopher Herring  21:16  \r\n[laughs]\r\n\r\n\r\nMichael Brown  21:18\r\nPurple Rain. \r\n\r\n\r\nChristopher Herring  21:18\r\nWell, ladies and gentlemen, it was my pleasure to be able to interview pastor Michael Steve Brown, the pastor of a True Vision Church. And, again, he's doing some great things in San Antonio and all over the country. His ministry is explosive, his congregation has a deep love for him. Anyone that can be able to pastor for twenty years, there has to be an outstanding relationship between the people and- and the man of God who has anoin- been anointed to be over the people. So again, thank you very much. \r\n\r\n\r\nMichael Brown  21:52\r\nThank you, Chris. \r\n\r\n\r\nChristopher Herring  21:53\r\nAnd may God continue to bless you. \r\n\r\n\r\nMichael Brown  21:54\r\nBless you. \r\n\r\n\r\nChristopher Herring  21:55\r\nThat’s what we all need. Thank you again, and stay tuned to TAAN TV: 300 Voices in 300 Days. This has been a blessing. I'm Chris Herring signing off.\r\n\r\n\r\nTranscribed by https://otter.ai\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n[a]This date may be wrong. He says the interview took place in November during the interview.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://saaacam.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2808/collection_resources/128206/file/239868#t=0.0,1329.408"}]}]}]}